Revised and extended skills and weapon statistics for the various kinds of knives and daggers, as mentioned in the forums.
Updated with minor clarifications, no substantive changes.
Lorgryt, rating: 85 January 09, 2009
It is good stuff, Uncle Jimbo... but it lacks your usual flare. Still, thanks for the nice info and ideas.
Sokolov, rating: 86 March 13, 2009
Much more in-depth than the rulebook. Thank you for such an informative and useful resource.
uncle_jimbo, rating: - March 16, 2009
Thanks - mostly I wanted it to be more _systematic_ than the rulebooks, which have a few separate listings for kinds of knives that don't necessarily form a logical historical development (the PHB's "dagger" and "combat knife" particularly). There's lots of scope to do similar extensions for swords, bows, spears, pistols .. almost any area that someone wanted to look at, really.
TheApologist, rating: 60 January 04, 2010
To be painfully honest, i think this entire recourse is superfluous.... And knife throwing has absolutely nothing to do with strength.
And short swords should be under blade, since they are swords...
Also, strength resistance modifier increases because you can use knives better makes absolutely no sense.
As for the actual knife equipment entries, I think you had you PL's wrong. Also, you missed quite a few knife entries, as well as special knives like switch blade knives or butterfly knives.
One overall, overbearing point: Knives are almost completely useless at throwing unless they are specially made throwing knives. Otherwise, they are so unbalanced that the chance of them landing tip to target, as well as hitting at all, are negligible. On the flip side, a knife made for throwing usually has a handle as thin as the blade, creating almost no grip for a melee fight. They would be useless at these applications.
Another one: Knives are, sad to say, extremely ineffective at anything aside from stabbing, and are usually only killing with a stealth stroke.
This resource, while creative, does not take into account the reality and mechanics of a real knife, or the nature that knives should be treated in alternity. Although the author succeeds in creating a more logical historical development, it still leaves one wanting, and other incorrect facts firmly devalue this source.
TheApologist, rating: - January 04, 2010
I revise my statement about the butterfly knife. Upon further examination, I found mention of it.
But this reveals another error- to be a balanced blade (which they did not have in PL 2) the blade either needs to be just as thick as the handle, or has to be made out of significantly heavier alloys then the handle to allocate for the thickness of the handle.
Also, if you include punch daggers, you need to include the trench spike.
uncle_jimbo, rating: - January 05, 2010
In the PHB, knife throwing uses Athletics-throw, which is exclusively a Strength skill. My treatment is an improvement. In any case I'm not convinced that the Alternity definition of Strength excludes a knife-throwing motion.
The short sword as listed uses MW-blade.
Strength resistance modifier (difficulty of being struck in melee) increases for all melee weapons and unarmed attack forms.
What are your concerns about PL? I described revised assumptions for PL - do those address, increase, or have no relevance to your concerns?
I don't agree that the resource could or should list every historical variant. Having said that, I didn't describe switchblades separately because there is nothing distinctive about them, with the possible exception of unusually flimsy construction. I'm not particularly interested in butterfly knives either, except that they're a legal anomaly.
I mentioned the trench spike under the stiletto entry (it would include a knuckle guard).
TheApologist, rating: - January 05, 2010
i was not aware of the strength resistance mod increase. (which also doesn't make sense). Neither does the throw for the knife. I have personally thrown knives and it is not a strength action, more of a dexterity one.
My concerns with the PL was that the knives were not created at those exact eras. Also you miss titled one (civic iron age).
Maybe we have different editions?
Lorgryt, rating: - January 05, 2010
I have hunted with knives, and the big problem with most game systems is that there are two major factors in thrown knives: Dex to hit and Str to hurt. I have known some great knife throwers that could hit a dime at 40 feet every time, but the knife only wounded a squirrel. And I have know people that almost never hit at that range, but would sink a knife over an inch into a log when they did hit.
Balancing a system is one of the hardest things to do ever. This is made even harder by the fact that personal experiences are so different. In the end, I would go with Str for Knife Throwing in Alternity. It isn't intuitive, but the Dex aspect is easier to get as a skill than the Str aspect would be.
TheApologist, rating: - January 11, 2010
as for knife throwing, the required strength to make a killing blow is not as difficult to achieve as the accuracy that goes with it. You can throw a knife as hard as you want, but accuracy at range is necessary to do any real damage. Maybe the best way to do it would to have strength resistance mod increase damage of the knife, but have it be a dex check. I mean, how can you justify how a called shot to the head would apply a penalty to the strength check? That doesn't make sense.
Also, my original, most important point is that knives, by default, aren't balanced and would be worthless for throwing and knives that are balanced would be worthless in a melee fight.
TheApologist, rating: - January 20, 2010
out of curiosity, where did you get the date for the weight balance of knives?
I don't think it happened nearly as early as that.
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